Topic: Russians = Harkonnens

Anyone know anything about that rifle demonstrated about 2:07? Is it a 9mm VSS?

Yes I believe that is a VSS "Vintorez" in 9x39mm.

See, the Russians are smarter than we are at small arms. 9mm x 39mm is one heck of a lot better than 7.62mm and light years beyond 5.56mm.

"VSS "Vintorez" in 9x39mm"
Yup.
Yeah, those guys party much harder than we are allowed to.

See, the Russians are smarter than we are at small arms. 9mm x 39mm is one heck of a lot better than 7.62mm and light years beyond 5.56mm.

Umm... I dunno about that. The 9x39 is a blown out 7.62x39 that shoots a 225 (or so) grain bullet at subsonic velocities. It was designed for use in suppressed weapons.

Ballisticly it is very much like a beautifully designed football. And has much the same trajectory.

It's a very good round for special forces - which is what it is designed for - but a poor round for the rank and file.

I mean, the bullet weighs as much as the bullet from a 338 Win Mag. Even with light powder charges and recoil reduction from the suppressors, it still must be a stout little thump on the shoulder. And since I could carry 500 rounds of 5.56 for every one hundred of 9x39?

Like I say, good round for special forces, not so good for general issue.

I'll still take a pair.

If I need rescuing I hope its the SAS/SBS or SEALs/Delta Force that turn up first. They don't gas the people they're supposed to be helping. Also I think they can handle doors tougher than cardboard.
Nice view of the countryside though, I wonder if its anywhere near where Putin had those photos taken that made him look like one of the gay cowboys in Brokeback mountain?

The best forces in the world are US Army Detachment Delta, FBI's HRT, the SAS, and Israel's Massad. These Russian guys are not nearly that good.
What is interesting however is the 6% casualty rate they take IN TRAINING.

IN training? lol. They aren't as good as I thought, then.

Isn't Massad an intelligence agency? What about the Navy's DEVGRU or the SBS?

Massad has an active aspect too. They are not passive gatherers of intel.

IN training? lol. They aren't as good as I thought, then.

They are fearless and they don't care who gets hurts in the process... this makes them very dangerous foes. Do not underestimate them.

That is true.

Shooting is a perishable skill. You don't hit one bullseye 15 years ago and expect to do it after shoving endless cake down your neck in the intermediate time.

That's work ethic that they're going through, reinforcing the neuromuscular signals that enable them to be perfect, not "adequate."

They don't gas the people they're supposed to be helping.

Alpha Group missed pulling off probably the most successful HRT in history due to the failure of the Russian government to tell the Hospitals what the people in the Moscow Theater had been exposed to. If the hostages had been treated correctly there would have been very few if none casualties. I don't think any terrorists came out alive.

The Chechens adapted to this tactic by including terrorists with deadmen switches in future takeovers.

IN training? lol. They aren't as good as I thought, then.They are fearless and they don't care who gets hurts in the process... this makes them very dangerous foes. Do not underestimate them.

I'm with Ogre. If you read Terror at Beslan by John Giduck or you're lucky and you get to see his presentation about it the bravery of Alpha Group is pretty exceptional.

They had to assault down hallways controlled by bunkered positions with belt fed machine guns. They also put themselves on line in a exposed outside position to fire at terrorists inside in window positions while hostages ran behind them knowing they would likely be killed during the suppression fire.

Due to Islamo-Facist terror tactics the thinking on Hostage Rescue Tactics has to change. It used to be considered a failure if a hostage was killed. Now when dealing with terrorists its a success if you save one hostage.

http://www.amazon.com/Terror-Beslan-Russian-Tragedy-Americas/dp/0976775301

Due to Islamo-Facist terror tactics the thinking on Hostage Rescue Tactics has to change. It used to be considered a failure if a hostage was killed. Now when dealing with terrorists its a success if you save one hostage.
http://www.amazon.com/Terror-Beslan-Russian-Tragedy-Americas/dp/0976775301

Exactly.

They are fearless and they don't care who gets hurts in the process... this makes them very dangerous foes. Do not underestimate them.

They are definitely dangerous and not to be underestimated due to this disregard for themselves and others and this is why they are as dangerous as the Islamo-facists. As for skills, quality & professionalism, I don't think they come near free-world teams (yes I said "free world"...nothing in the land of Stalin has changed much no matter what Time and Ted Turner say) but they make up for it by that very brutality and disregard for life and safety that Ogre mentioned. The notion of preventing "collateral damage" (ie. hurting innocents) is barely in their universe much less their lexicon. I've read most of Giduck's works and I agree the Beslan guys were hard as Superman's uhm...elbow that day but I'd hate them coming to save me or mine. Fighting them in a MOUT environment would be hell though.

The CQB sucked in that video, especially clearing the breach-point. As bad as I thought they were, I thought they would be better than that. It must have been a rookie squad in basic CQB training.

"Fighting them in a MOUT environment would be hell though."
As the Germans found out... Indeed it was.